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  1. It's nearly 5 am for me right now, so I might not have time to cover every single point mentioned, which might not be needed anyway since another Moderator already addressed a lot of what was originally said.

    Anyhow, I do agree that there's indeed improvement that can be made especially when it comes to handling what is often referred as "rating abuse". To be entirely fair toward the staff team, it's something rather complex to handle. To begin with, it's not possible to monitor or control every single instance of abusive use of the rating system that could occur, but not moderating on it is hardly a good solution either. At least I for once do believe that it is not a good idea to let users farm ratings with friends or alternate account, or spam others with dislikes, but some do disagree and I respect that.

    Resuming it as a limit problem just doesn't cut it. Sometime someone clearly disliked 3 posts on the same thread, or another logical context, because they expressed an opinion the person disliked, and other time they clearly went on that person profile and searched two additional recent post just to dislike them, in a way that can only be classified as vengeful.

    To be fair, I would prefer to simply make neutral ratings uncounted, basically making them uncounted on profiles, to make such abuse irrelevant and solve the issue. I have myself suggested this solution to the Hypixel Administration, with no result so far. All I wanted to clarify is that I do agree that more consistency would be great when it come to rating abuse, but that the Community should also understand how difficult it is to moderate on that field right now, since it's factually impossible for us to see everything, even more when users tend to not report, and how just not moderating it simply isn't a realistic option at that moment in time.

    Now while I did say above that I agreed with some of your statement on how rating abuse is handled, there's somethings in which I am in strong disagreement with in your original post.

    First and foremost, stating that the only way to for an abusive staff to taken care of by the Administration is to take public actions is absolutely false and wrong. Contacting staff manager with clear evidence of the situation will leads to the situation being handled in almost any case, I am certain of that since myself I have forwarded to my management and seen actions being taken countless times in the past.

    I respect your opinion on the topic, but public content on private matter is always unintentionally biased, and often willingly created to only present one side of the topic. I have seen countless of post, even in these replies, making claims about unfair punishment, which unfortunately some people will blindly believe, despite the clear lack of evidence. You have to realize that sadly not everyone take the consequence of their own actions maturely, and that a massive amount of people tend to try to use altered version of their situation to make public pressure on the Hypixel Staff Team. I can assure that while that clearly isn't the case for everyone, many of these claims are clearly altered to convince the public of their innocence, for example.

    Controversial or not, I really do think that making public content on matters like "unfair punishment" or so called "abusive staff" is the worst way to handle the situation, and overall as a terrible negative impact on the Hypixel Community. These kind of post about a particular case at best show only one side of the situation, and often clearly misinform the public, while on the other side is almost always impossible for staff members to debunk lies since that would require to expose confidential information. Indeed, that does mean that some of this content as to be locked to stop the spread of false and unhealthy rumors, because the truth is many will believe unsupported claim despite the clear lack of evidence.

    I also do think that some of the attitude you take in this thread is highly unnecessary. I find that claiming that staff members are unable to justify their own actions is disrespectful and false, especially considering that I always take pride and large amount of time in explaining my actions to the community, even if that take hundreds of words and hours to do so.


    To conclude, I do agree and even seek to improve some of the Moderation process on the forums myself, and do concede that some of your point are valid. I do believe that discussing these matter is constructive, however I do also believe that any form of aggressive attitude regarding the staff here is uncalled for, and clearly not useful to the conversation.

    I give you my respect for bringing good point to public attention, however I do believe that content of this type should especially avoid at all cost to be biased, or fall into sensationalism. No thread should be aimed or constructed, may it be intentionally or not, at attacking someone else or a group, and that does apply to the staff team, because that is simply not constructive. Criticism does not require to be aggressive.

    That is my opinion, and yes criticism, on what you expressed here, and how you express it. I am fairly well aware that it might cause disagreement, but those are my honest opinion and reaction to what you state.
     
    #61
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
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  2. Communist confirmed?
     
    #62
  3. Saitama_

    Saitama_ Well-Known Member

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    Agree and hypixel makes easy money. I mean we waited 1 year for a balance update for mega walls and they did a really bad job IMO and there are more examples of this. They don't know the priorities we waited how Many months till the fixed the 2 blocks fall dmg. We pay we don't get what we pay for
     
    #63
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  4. Echks

    Echks Well-Known Member

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    Oh god, I woke up to a lot of replies. excruciatingly deep breath


    Just sayin'...
    Why is it that difficult? Really, you can simply look at the posts, or maybe actually work under an "innocent until proven guilty" system.
    I mean...
    I have really close relations with most of the Smash Heroes forumers, none of them have been banned for rating abuse, only one has been banned, and it was for disrespect.
    Why is it so much harder to detect? o_O
    Why didn't he respond? He could've at least said "oh im busy ill get to this later."

    And what's the point in saying report them if I said, in the thread, that he did?
    Yea, it's you :p
    Trying to avoid 319 people screaming "PUBLIC SHAMAN"
    But I gave three dislikes.
    How's that abuse?
    According to your definition, it's not.
    I'll get to that in a sec, let me finish this reply.
    See, that's wrong. Someone is afraid to give dislikes because he's afraid to be punished.
    Yea, I don't like it when the forums get spammed. I like having relevant threads to look through.
    That's essentially the screenshot with which my attacker posted on my profile. It provides no context, and you aren't given the ability to defend yourself.
    You shouldn't be afraid to give ratings, this shows something is wrong.
    Captain Worse Prestige Award did get forum banned :p
    I was told a little bit ago that "damn" is okay.
    And seeing as a mod hasn't commented on it, either it's fine or they didn't read the thread.
    I like to assume it's fine, thus.
    He did contact the staff manager. The staff manager didn't respond.
    That's surprising, good to see a mod admitting the system has flaws.
    Though you can understand I'm not in the best mood writing this thread, yes?
     
    #64
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  5. Saitama_

    Saitama_ Well-Known Member

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    This man is Savage. I am gonna predict. This thread is gonna get closed xD
     
    #65
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  6. What I was going to post last night before the thread got locked
    THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS
    I was going to post something like this, as I have had almost an identical experience, but I figured staff would (as they often do) get butthurt and delete it. I really wish there was an easier way to defend yourself. The staff just assume the worst, and hand out absurd punishments.

    (This one time I was banned/warned for something MY FRIEND DID WHILE WE WERE AT SCHOOL (same IP). Thankfully it took a half decent mod 2 minutes and a laugh to throw out my infraction, but before that I had gone to the mod responsible for my punishment, tried to explain and been refused [I basically got 'rules are rules'])
     
    #66
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  7. There should probably be a new line drawn between common sense, and overreactions. :s
     
    #67
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. Oh jeez, 4 pages... Here we go.

    Flaming punishments also require a lot of judgement sometimes. The Moderator may have thought your flaming wasn't extreme enough, or because everyone on the thread was doing it you'd get off on a warning. I don't know, and these are not the only possible cases. In order to give more information I need more information myself.
    I don't know and I can't exactly help with that situation as it's long gone at this point and I'm not Appeals team, sorry. The best way to appeal bans is in the ban appeal section. What the decision made there is above my "paygrade" so to speak.
    I'm not sure what this means.
    I can't really help you further with this situation then, unfortunately, without knowing more details. If you'd like any more information I have then please send me a PM about the situation.
    Because this is generally the case. We can't question all of the staff without reason. If you have a reason that you think your punishment may be unfair, present it to us.
    You pretty much hit the nail on the head here. Ratings are arbitrary, although that doesn't mean people will view them that way. Take for example, yesterday I gave someone a Rude rating and the user made a post about it on his profile in all caps. (If it truly didn't matter he wouldn't have made a post) I'm not sure what you mean by "it is EXACTLY this example here" though. Feel free to elaborate.
    In what ways? Is it more than just the fact that you got warnings/bans and you don't think they were justified? If so, we can't do anything about what we don't realize. We aren't saying we are perfect, although if you have feedback it's appreciated. Send it in a PM if you're worried about it being public.
    It's actually quite a complicated process when it comes to editing the official rules, and therefore sometimes things don't get included for a while. I'll address each rule you mention.
    • Rating Abuse: You're fair here, this should be added to the rules section if we're going to punish for it and I'll look into that.
    • Necroposting: This generally isn't punishable, and therefore it doesn't really need to be in the rules section.
    • Caps: Not using caps is actually in the rules:
    • Misinforming Players: There's not a specific section for this so fair point for you, although it is mentioned in multiple locations that you should not give out false information.
    I guarantee you as of posting this, shooting over walls is 100% allowed. The one mod may have been confused or you may have been talking to them at a point where it was controversial and not decided entirely.
    Very controversial topic here, and it is situational. Unfortunately I cannot tell you right now whether this is allowed or isn't, as it is on a case-by-case basis.
    The Allowed modifications thread covers what mods should not be an issue on the network. If it is not on that list, you should treat it as though it is not allowed. We can't edit the main rules thread to include a section for every popular mod unfortunately.
    I unfortunately cannot help you further here, as I don't have enough information on the situation. Sorry.
    We've clearly stated on our rules thread that your account is your responsibility. This is mostly because we can't tell when someone's lying to save themselves vs when someones actually telling the truth and it wasn't them breaking the rules. I'm sorry if you were banned because of your cousins actions, although next time please log out if you want to be safe. (That was mean of your cousin, though!)
    We don't lock threads because they're criticizing us, it just happens to be that most threads criticizing us get locked. This is indirectly caused by their contents, usually the responses being angry and flamey, or the original thread being overly aggressive, just to name a few examples.
    Because it is, that's our policy and we can't unban people because they say it wasn't them. It's not because we don't care or want to be mean, but we also have to take care of our own network's security. If an account breaks the rules, we punish the account. Not the user behind it.
    No where do I see us "accusing" you of making 3 appeals. If we did, though, it likely would have been a mistake on our part, as they were separate bans. I don't know, though, I need more information.
    Just noticed this post, I don't know what you want from us? Our job is to enforce the rules, not ignore them.
    Press the Report button on it and a Moderator will review it.
    There's ~9 million players that have logged onto Hypixel and only 40+ Admins. Unfortunately, they can't please everyone with their updates. The 2 block fall damage was a very complicated issue revolving around the way 1.8 and 1.9 compatibility works. Cryptkeeper made a post on it, although I cannot find it right now.
    It's difficult because we can't tell what your motives are all the time for giving a rating. I'd like to think that we do work under an "innocent until proven guilty system," otherwise we'd have a lot more false bans. This is why we don't ban people when they get reported, but instead when we get proof, for example. If anything is not based on this system, I'd say the rating abuse punishments are obviously the most so, and that's why you're creating this thread. I don't know how to prove someone's intentions, though. Please let me know if you have any ideas, and just "ignoring this rule" would not be an option. We want to overcome our issues, not avoid them.

    Then press Report on these users and Moderators will notice this abuse easier. We won't see it if we don't know about it.
    Many reasons. One is that people don't see positive ratings as a bad thing. If someone gets spammed with a ton of likes, they probably aren't going to report it. If they get spammed with a ton of dislikes, they'll get mad and report it. Another reason is that we are much more lenient when it comes to positive rating. This is because, again, people don't see it as a bad thing. There's likely more reasons I could come up with although I really don't have the time right now and I've gotta rush through the rest of this post.
    I don't know, I'm not Jamie. Sorry. I promise he saw your message, though.
    I'm talking more in general than about this specific staff member.
    You're right that it provides no context, and as a Moderator, we'd get more information before punishing most of the time. As for defending yourself, you can go ahead and defend all you want. The issue is the player reading your defense, not you.
    I want to refrain from responding to anyones quotes of other mods, as I think those mods should be able to respond on their own. I'd like to say, though, we know we aren't perfect and we will admit to our mistakes when necessary. I don't think it should be surprising, personally, to see a staff member say a player is right. Maybe it's because I'm a staff member and I see all the little mistakes that happen every day, I don't know. We certainly aren't perfect, though.

    -----

    Phew, that was a lot. Took me about an hour and a half to write all of that. Gotta run, now, though! Got to be somewhere in about a half an hour and I'm still a mess.
     
    #68
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  9. Echks

    Echks Well-Known Member

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    I have an idea.
    It's a bit weird, but why don't you... maybe...

    ASK THEM?
     
    #69
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  10. Good mod:
    Screenshot (3).png

    Bad mod. Mod who banned me for something my friend did on his account, while at school (same IP). Thankfully it took a decent mod about 2 minutes to throw out my ban:
    Screenshot (4).png
     
    #70
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  11. Saitama_

    Saitama_ Well-Known Member

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    Hypixel became literally a company and they punish kids like kids. Imagine that Riot games bans people because someone called someone noob (you can't say noob) and hypixel rules are so unclear. You think a ten year old kid is gonna understand the consequences. And when they appeal it gets instantly denied.
    I got banned on badlion and Mine plex (not gonna talk about that xD) I appealed and guess what I got unmanned by just saying sorry. Noway that that ever gonna happen on Hypixel
     
    #71
  12. Side note, someone just 'rating abused' me lol. Thanks man! Gotta keep that P/D ratio good! Have a good time being warned!
     
    #72
  13. Camellia

    Camellia Well-Known Member

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    I can understand my ban, although I feel like I didn't deserve it. I'm completely fine with it. However, I highly disapprove of @exsepshun 's ban simply because he failed to change his password. Now, he is banned for one whole month, and is unable to have fun on the Hypixel Network, as well as achieve his goal of Master Skin Cake Monster (a highly prestigious title in Smash Heroes.)
     
    #73
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  14. CoalOres

    CoalOres Well-Known Member

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    Typical Mod Response to this Thread:

    Sorry for your problem, but you aren't allowed to spam ratings.

    If you have any more problems please PM me.

    *Locks thread*
     
    #74
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  15. PentBeear

    PentBeear Well-Known Member

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    MY TURN Welp i'm scared really scared i have seen countless just 1 people get banned and honestly i don't even want to post here anymore cause its just not fun with being banned for like 1 word 1 rating
     
    #75
  16. Cringe

    Cringe Active Member

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    Some mods don't care and just copy paste. She knows who I'm talking about if she's seeing this.
     
    #76
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  17. Saitama_

    Saitama_ Well-Known Member

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    No one plays on 1.9 and no one likes it (most of the people) even my 9 year old brother knows how to switch from versions and I did not even tell him. I have gotten less issues with my connection when I played on 1.7 and why did you guys dropped it because you staff told us it's hard to develop games for both version. It looks like it'd harder to makes games compatible for 1.9 and you guys do it for nobody because nobody plays on 1.9. You guys just ruined everybody's game experience for 4 months
     
    #77
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  18. Exas

    Exas Well-Known Member

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    3% of the community played 1.7 by the time we switched. I don't know the % of people who play on 1.8 and 1.9 (and even 1.10) but I doubt the numbers are lower than 3% for 1.9. We dropped 1.7 because it was 2 years old and barely anyone played on it, we'll drop 1.8 and 1.9 and so on in time when they become less used as well. Besides, once again I'll say this, 1.8 pvp will remain the norm for Hypixel until something equally as good or better comes out, 1.9 pvp will stay to 1.9 pvp style games.
     
    #78
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  19. Wanderer

    Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    This thread is going to stop sooner or later, and nothing is going to be done about it, except maybe the demotion of a few abusive mods.

    Getting rid of a few mods is only a small part of the larger problem that is evident here. That's not the issue here, we are trying to fix the way our forum ratings work, in an improved way that provides leeway for players who want to give their opinion without being scared of backlash or forum warns.

    I understand the mods defensive stance against Echks, but it has to be acknowledged that there is a problem here.
    Instead of debating on who is right about the corrupt in the staff, we should be working to get rid of forum misunderstandings.

    If any of the mods had even made a small compromise, that compromise would have created a step towards solving this problem. Instead, most mods are denying the problem exists and are continuing to try and take control of the situation.
    (except you sylent :> ) I get that you all are trying to act mature and all, but there is a fine line between being mature and being ignorant.

    See, saying that^ was pretty difficult to say because of the fear that I might get warned or shouted at, and everyone knows it exists. Isn't it time to solve the problem instead of arguing whether the problem exists or not?
     
    #79
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